Post by nickd on Mar 31, 2012 15:20:58 GMT 1
Legal Aid minister Jonathon Djanogly is evidently 'on call' telling us all about 'easier to access and more accessible advice services'
So far, the legal aid minister has remained remarkably consistent in his answers when dealing with questions posed by those who fear the demise of access to justice for people with a social welfare problem, he prefers alternative solutions to publicly funded legal aid for anyone with a social welfare law problem. This 'telephone encounter' appears in a justice department press release following Justice Minister Jonathan Djanogly's visit to Co-operative Legal Services Headquarters in Bristol.
Here's what the Justice department release tells us
'Consumers in England and Wales will find solicitors more competitive, more efficient and easier to access as new High Street providers are announced today.
Today three firms have been given approval to operate as Alternative Business Structures (ABSs) including Co-operative Legal Services, Lawbridge Solicitors Ltd and John Welch and Stammers,
"This is a huge milestone for UK legal services and the future of Alternative Business Structures."
"ABSs introduce more competition in the market place, delivering competitive pricing, higher standards of product and more choice for the consumer."
"Our UK legal services are unrivalled around the world and these changes will allow them to reach new heights, as solicitors’ firms develop new markets, seek external investment and join up with other businesses to offer different products to consumers and provide opportunities for growth"
It's an innovation which has been promoted as 'trailblazing' - but is it?
With our justice minister hanging on the telephone, wouldn't it be nice to get the chance to ask him to answer just a few of our questions?
Question (1) Can I get proper help with a welfare benefits enquiry requiring specialist help from the Co-operative?
The Co-operative legal services website tells us it is comforting to know that you can rely on a 'single source' for your legal needs. All support, help and legal advice on the area of your need is offered via the telephone free of charge, they do not yet offer face to face advice. The Co-operative tells you their advice is offered without obligation and in complete confidence; you will be advised over the phone by a team of legal experts. The Co-operative also use a wide panel of external lawyers that can help with specialist cases, they offer free legal advice in the following areas:
Will Writing
When someone dies
Buying & selling your home
Personal Injury Claims
Employment claims
Additional benefits are offered to Co-operative members, if you are a member of The Co-operative Group, they will offer free legal advice on other aspects of the law. Their extensive legal advice can cover anything from resolving a problem with a neighbour to matters affecting your consumer rights, there's no reference to all the usual areas of social welfare law - just family & some housing related advice.
(A) The Co - operative will not be offering a 'full range' of specialist help services at all. A person wanting help with a welfare benefit appeal would be better helped as they currently are; - by accessing specialist help from a CAB or law centre rather than the Co - operative, that's the real answer.
The Co - operative has not got an answer for people who will need full access to all areas of social welfare advice.
Question (2) The Co - Operative restricts its range of legal range by excluding areas of popular social welfare advice. It limits access by only providing telephone advice. So some people will not be able to access the help they really need will they?
Some people will need face to face advice, they just can't explain all of their problems over the phone. The relationship between client and legal advisor is often similar to the relationship a doctor has with their patient; - it has to be accepted that people will simply need to see someone to help diffuse their complex array of social welfare problems.
The Co - operative specifically promotes its services by telling us "You will be advised over the phone by our team of legal experts". No matter how expert an advisor is, it has to be accepted that not all enquiries can be satisfactorily resolved over the phone. Their website does not detail provision for enquiries which will need to be resolved in a more conventional way and what the charging basis may be should this be required. The Co - operative are looking at face to face advice; - but there is nothing which convinces us it will help people in the same way that they are currently helped by CABx & law centres.
(A) It has to be accepted that the Co - operative legal service will provide limited access to advice by restricting its services to the telephone & by reducing the areas of advice they cover. Some people argue that legal aid costs the tax - payer; - of course it does -it's part of our welfare state. The kind of social welfare legal aid provided by CABx & law centres accounts for a very small proportion (around £100 million) of the entire £2.1 billion legal aid bill. The costs are met out of people's National Insurance fund contributions and taxation; - we are talking about a cost of no more than a couple of pounds a year per head of population (using worked calculations). In contrast, the services offered by the Co - operative will cost you more in higher insurance premiums & out of the increased prices you will pay for the profits they make from the products & services they sell. It will always cost you more when you pay for a service which is provided by those who want and need to make a profit.
Reducing the range of services by excluding large areas of social welfare law & reducing access by only offering telephone advice will preclude many from accessing legal advice which meets their needs; - it will cost you more & won't always give you the help you really require. [/b]
Question (3) The Co - operative legal service is first and foremost a 'business structure' - will this cloud & compromise the way legal services are delivered?
Have a listen to the Birmingham Law Society & the experts say in this video, they tell you some of the pros & some of the cons. They don't really say much about social welfare though; - it's almost as though it doesn't exist.
Change is inevitable with the introduction of alternative business structures, there are no guarantees that they will satisfactorily revolutionise our legal services for the better. There is always the risk that good quality advice will become less of a priority as commercial enterprises such as the Co - operative focus more dynamically on selling their range of services such as insurance, banking & financial services, funeral services, & their retail/food products. The inescapable reality is this will provide them with a commercial view to sell you a product. Take the case of someone who has been burgled, they will be in the market to replace the items they have had stolen. People asking about pensions may be sold various plans & told about how to ease the burden on their loved ones. Road traffic accident victims will continue to be advised upon compensation, not to mention selling them a replacement car. The problem is that the kind of people who present at CAB & law centres don't want to hear all of this, they just want the help they need to sort out problems which are best resolved by the professional paid staff of these not for profit organisations.
Government sees a place for people to purchase 'before the event' insurance policies, we have all been asked when renewing our motor insurance 'do you want legal protection as well?'
In some cases, these policies can provide perfectly good value for money and useful cover when it comes to legal expenses cover. The problem is that when the event arrives; - this is when people are drawn to the small print and realise that all the premiums they have paid do not provide them with the kind of legal help they require. There is a distinct lack of clarity as whether any of these alternative business structures will provide cover for social welfare problems; - currently funded by legal aid and provided by CAB & law centres at specialist help level.
(A) The truth is commercial business solutions are bound to leave a justice gap wherever there is an need for social welfare legal help. It is currently provided by the not - for - profit sector for a very good reason; - there is no profit in it. It is inevitable that access to social welfare justice will be compromised if we start to rely upon business orientated structures to deliver it.
Be under no illusion access to social welfare justice will be compromised.
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Question (4) Is our government once again pushing at an open door with its links to privatised industry?
There is no way of getting away from this thorny subject, it's on everyone's mind and receiving a great deal of exposure in the media. Both ilegal and Mylegal were instrumental in exposing some of the multi - millionaire minister's close ties with the insurance industry. We exposed a non - disclosure of interests Mr Djanogly held in a family insurance businesses and drew attention to his alleged close lobbying links with the British Insurance Association who provided a consultation response to legal reforms which almost mirrored the views of the Ministry of Justice. It's as though they were given a helping hand in their response from within the ministry. The Guardian took up the story and went on to expose the close links between the industry and the minister's department. They referred to it as "pushing at an open door" over lobbying opportunities between ministers & private industry. As a result of this exposure Mr Djanogly was subsequently disabled by Parliament from steering certain insurance industry elements of the legal aid, sentencing & punishment of offender's bill through the scrutiny stages in the House of Commons, there was substance to our investigative work.
The Co - operative is amongst many services, a key supplier of insurance policies. Alongside the legal aid bill, the legal services act is being reformed. The Ministry of Justice has been heavily involved with both legal aid and legal services reform. The Legal Services Act is the one which introduces alternative business structures (ABS's) such as the Co - operative, it is one of the first 3 to get the go ahead from the Solicitor Regulatory Authority (SRA) to operate. Another 60 stage 2 applications have been received out of nearly 180 applicants who have thus far expressed an initial interest in becoming an ABS. Only recently insurance firms were pleading hardship because of delays in getting regulatory approval from the SRA and yet this week the green light appears to have been given. The ministry of justice would be helped immensely in their efforts to abolish legal aid for social welfare on financial grounds when the legal aid bill returns in the House of Commons on April 17th if they can argue that alternative business structures are in place and can offer what they would no doubt term a 'cost effective alternative'. No one should be misled into believing ABS's are in any way a satisfactory alternative to the specialist work which CAB & law centres current provide at tremendous value under legal aid funding.
It is time that a proper enquiry was carried out in to exactly how many doors the ministry of justice has been opening in an effort to drum up a privatised 'alternative' to legal aid. Furthermore, questions need to be asked as to how many of these business structures are from the insurance industry in the light of the the controversy which has arisen over the close links in the passage of the legal aid bill through Parliament so far.
The Ministry of Justice showed very little sign of listening to any of the 5,000 views of informed professionals, the vast majority of which rejected the legal aid reforms. However, the Ministry appears to be more than prepared to provide a listening ear to what it sees as alternative business structures. The government has already acknowledged how the whole question of Parliamentary lobbying will become the next biggest scandal in Westminster; - it's on the on the political horizon - that's for sure. It is time that all of these open door opportunities between Parliament and private sector became more balanced with equality being given to the not - for - profit sector. The legally aided specialist help branch of CAB and law centres are the only solution when it comes to social welfare, but government appears to have cast them adrift in an assumption that they should sink or swim of their own accord. The argument has been muddled by a government which has refused to accept the specialist work of the not- for - profit sector; - it chooses to highlight the sector with a condescending compliment of the work our volunteer generalist provide. It's easier than admitting we need paying for the specialist work we do and need paying for by way of continued legal aid funding.
(A) Yes, perhaps the Ministry of Justice and its wealthy ministers are once again sailing too close to the wind or rather in close proximity to the industries with which they have established links. If our Ministry of Justice is going to have an open door policy it must be on an equal footing with the not - for - profit sector and must acknowledge that certain elements of social welfare law have an absolute requirement of statutory funding; - particularly where the private sector has shown no inclination to take up the justice gap which now threatens to exclude access to social welfare legal aid for those who need it most.
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Question (5) So will one of smaller firms which have been granted SRA regulatory approval be reaching out into areas of deprivation & able to say advise people on how to sort out a debt problem?
The firm John Welch and Stammers is based in Witney in Oxfordshire. It's familiar territory to our Prime Minister David Cameron; - being his home town & parliamentary constituency. Rather than help people in debt, it advertises amongst its services 'debt recovery', it just doesn't seem to be the kind of office your more typical CAB/law centre client would go to for advice. Amongst other services, it promotes:
Personal injury
Debt recovery
Commercial and contractual disputes
Contested wills and probate matters
Professional negligence
Property and landlord and tenant disputes
Employment to include, Compromise agreements, Redundancy, Unfair dismissal and Equality and Diversity
Alternative dispute resolution such as cost effective mediation
There is no mention of access to a full range of social welfare law services. So if you have a problem involving your benefits or need help negotiating debts with your creditors, you're unlikely to get any help from this alternative business law firm in affluent Witney; - and nor do they do provide any legal aid for people who cannot afford their fees. It seems that business orientated legal services such as this firm appear to see more profit in helping creditors rather than those in debt; - so if you are struggling with paying your bills this firm is probably not the one for you.
(A) So no. this smaller firm isn't likely to be of much help to those of limited means struggling to pay their debts in our Prime Minister's home town of affluent Witney. One can only hope traditional not - for - profit advice sources are available and suitably resourced for the poorer people living in Mr Cameron's constituency. Advice sector funding varies greatly from area to area and legal aid goes a long way to ensuring it is evenly spread because it is based on National procurement mapping based on social economic deprivation within differing localities.
Question (6). So what about the third firm - Lawbridge solictors; will they be able to come to the rescue of those in need of social welfare advice usually provided by the not for profit sector?
A look at their website tells us they offer you a 15 minute free consultation; after which there's plenty on how you can pay your fees, they even make it easy for you to make a payment on - line. Amongst their services they promote:
We are solicitors specialising in Civil Litigation, Insolvency, Company & Commercial and Employment law. Our aim is to provide accessible and affordable high quality legal services to all our clients.
Services for Business
"We provide a wide range of legal services to business clients. From legal support in managing and dealing with your staff to acting in disputes and litigation with third parties and from assising you wth company and commercial documents to dealing with issues arising on insolvency - we have the expertise to help you. We listen carefully to your business' requirements and help to find practical, commercial and cost-efficient solutions that meet your needs. The Services for Business sections of our website give you a detailed picture of the services that we can assist your business with. Please feel free to contact us to discuss any of these services with us at any time.
Services for Individuals
All our legal services are also available to individuals. We advise and assist employees with problems at work and employment tribunal claims. We undertake dispute resolution and litigation in a variety of personal claims for individuals and trustees. We prepare advise individuals in relation to commercial documents and, when things have gone wrong, in bankruptcy and insolvency and the various problems connected with this. The Services for Individuals sections of our website give you a detailed picture of the services that we can assist your business with. Please feel free to contact us to discuss any of these services with us at any time.
The firm promotes its range of conditional fee arrangements
"The firm undertakes some of its work on a conditional fee or contingency fee basis (including “variable fee” or “no win no fee” agreements). The provision of work under any such agreement is subject to rules of law and the provisions of the Solicitors Code of Conduct together with the firm’s assessment of the merits and circumstances of the User’s case."
Insolvency and bankruptcy
One of the firm's partners "has advised many insolvency practitioners, businesses and individuals in relation to a wide variety of insolvency issues and problems including dealing with winding up and bankruptcy petitions, making applications to the Companies Court and County Courts and negotiating settlements of disputes relating to the ownership of assets."
There's one way of finding out what services they provide. Tap in 'debt collection' on the Kent Law Society website and up comes Lawbridge; - You won't find anything under social welfare law though.
(A) It's yet another unimpressive alternative to legal aid for anyone seeking free of charge help with a social welfare law problem - unless of course it can be solved within 15 minutes and comes within the range of expertise offered by Lawbridge. If you're in need of help sorting out your Employment & Support Allowance appeal, you'd best pop off down to your local CAB or law centre in Kent - providing they are still open of course.
Question (7) Do Alternative Business Structured legal services offer any hope in bridging the void left by the abolition of legal aid which currently funds many CAB & law centres?
Listen to what the young legal aid lawyers had to say about Alternative Business Structures, back in 2009...
The reaction from the audience says it all, they certainly didn't see Alternative Business Structures as a viable alternative to funding solutions for social welfare law; - especially against much larger and more commercial entities.
The importance of legal aid was eloquently expressed by Lord Bach in 2009, it is worth watching it all as some interesting solutions were mentioned by our current government further on into the debate...
Lord Bach, has always maintained that social welfare legal aid must be protected. In 2009 the Conservatives were advocating the use of interest from client accounts as a means of protecting legal aid for the future. It is a more viable idea than the one which revolves around Alternative Business Structures; - these will not bridge the justice gap left by abolishing legal aid for key areas of social welfare law.
There are also some interesting views put forward on alternative business structures expressed here...
'Trouble ahead'
troubleahead.co.uk/
Legal Futures
www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/breaking-news-sra-unveils-its-first-three-abss
Plenty of views via the Guardian
www.guardian.co.uk/law/alternative-business-structures
The cost of complying with the new regulatory regime
troubleahead.co.uk/2011/12/02/the-cost-of-compliance/
(A) Ultimately, the final answer to our questions can only come from our Ministers of Justice..
I just know what I think. Will any of these three 'trail blazing' Alternative Business Structures really help people seeking assistance with key social welfare law issues such as their debts, their welfare benefits or a whole raft of problems currently dealt with under legal aid funding by CAB & law centres?
The Question we need to be asking our Ministers of Justice...
Because if they don't, there are going to be an awful lot of wasted phone calls and thousands of social welfare law problems which remain unresolved.
Until the Ministry has satisfactorily answered our call we need to be clear that proper legal aid funding should remain in place just as Lord Bach said it should back in 2009.
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Links used
The first three firms granted SRA approval
www.co-operative.coop/legalservices/free-legal-advice/
www.lawbridgesolicitors.com/Default.aspx
www.johnwelchandstammers.co.uk/
SRA press release
www.sra.org.uk/sra/news/press/sra-authorises-first-abs.page?j=26777&e=kieron@wealthifa.com&l=346_HTML&u=901229&mid=1062735&jb=0
Justice department press release
www.justice.gov.uk/news/features/solicitors-more-efficient,-competitive,-easier-to-access
Kent Law Society search
www.kentlawsociety.com/find-a-solicitor.html?locality=sidcup&specialty=debt-collection
Worked example
The Cost of social welfare legal aid for not - for - profit organisations is around £100 million. The national population is around 60 million. You simply divide one into the other to get the 'per head of population' figure used in cost analysis. This comes to around £1.66 per person per year - less than £2 a year.