Welfare reform general debate in House of Lords

[nickd]

Due to the lateness of the debate, it's going to take a little longer but we'll have a full write up on it as soon as we can.

Some speed notes concentrating on summary:

View the full debate here...

www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=9000

Lords Chamber

Meeting started at 2.35pm

ended at 10.43pm


Summing up

Lord Mckenzie (referring to others)

IT concerns - public accounts committee

Supports reforms but recognised areas of concern

Problems over Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit being misaligned, wanted to see LA's deal with complex cases on a face to face basis at local level

Lord Freud

Bit of a freudian slip as he opened by referring to a 'deal', quickly put right but it leaves me wondering why he had those words in mind.

What most concerned him was the way the disabled were fearing these reforms

Putting all his faith in committee and scrutiny stages for full opportunity to analyze bill.

Time limit of ESA strikes the 'right balance', severe groups will be fully protected

IT will be fully explained

He couldn't answer the detail; - it will follow.

IT will break the chain between departments, nothing like NHS, well under way, constantly looking at how it works, scale of delivery in line with ESA which works well. Will explain It elaborately

Benefit cap - Should not expect a life on benefits, families out of work will need to make same decisions as those in work

Easing transition for families

Housing - housing benefit doubled over last ten years - LHA already makes some cuts but more needed

5 million in social housing, people living with two many bedrooms, need to make better use of housing stock, help people move,

Connection with CPI to LHA for 2 years then can be reconsidered

Childcare - a critical issue - taking time to get this rights - better under universal credit for those in work - absolutely need to get this right

Impact of this bill greater than all of those in the past, universal credit and simplification will lift 600,000 out of poverty. 'De - risking' coming out of work

UC puts £4 billion each year into the pockets of poor - putting a lot of money into it - aimed at changing state of nation - altering the mindset of welfare dependency - the bill is a real opportunity to make a difference

Outcome

'Bill to be read a second time'

"The contents have it"

House adjourned.

We'll have more when we've seen the transcript and the timetable of when it will next go through House of Lord stages.

We'll keep you posted on Mylegal

[nickd]

It was a humane introduction of the bill into the lord's chamber, with very little mention of chaotic implementation or any challenge on the costly involvement of private contractors.

I'll reserve my further views until I have read the full transcript.

However, for starters..

Lord Freud slid the bill into the Lords with the usual promises of simplification and getting people back to work, he was definitely softer edged than usual and laughably said his greatest concern was for the disabled who feared these reforms. To which I'd say well why is it that you keep feeding the media with sensationalist headlines which demonize the disabled and categorize 8 out 10 claimants as on the fiddle then?

There was some good debate from what I've heard of it so far, but really someone needs to take them to task over private contractors and how much they will get paid in the biggest welfare to work rip off we've seen yet. The Work programme will far outweigh the inefficiencies of Flexible New Deal; - in the main - because there simply isn't the work to go round. You can brush up your CV all you like, knock on doors, ring around (usual A4E type blurb) but what people need are real jobs!

The Universal Credit will take a good 8 years, by which time we'll probably be calling it something else, before it starts to work smoothly, it's got the potential to work; - but please let's not kid ourselves it's going to from day 1.

There will be no deficit reduction by 2015 from these reforms, it will be a multi-billion minus on the welfare reform budget spreadsheet by next parliament and by 2020 it will still be a minus; - government has to stop pretending it will save the state money in the short term, it won't - it will cost, only in the much longer term are there potential for savings.

It will be utterly chaotic, the IT infrastructure won't work as well as Freud says, it'll be one mistake after another with people throwing the phone at the floor in despair as they can't get through because of thousands of claimants on the phone in endless queues being told 'the system's down'. And what makes all this as daft as a brush is the distinct lack of help for people because Government prioritizes spending up to £14,00 per person to pay these wretched contractors in helping people 'find work' over the importance of paying us a measly few quid to sort their problems out.

Half these welfare to work reform casualties will end up working for the contractors (or rather sub contractors) themselves in make believe jobs which exist just long enough to count as 'back in work', the other half will do a voluntary spell before ending back up on benefits. The real efforts should be on real jobs, ultimately that's what needed for those who can work.

The fact is we have people living to a ripe old age, a fair number of multiple earners in one family, a lack of industry and next to zero growth, plus we fail to recognize how it just may be that 1.9 million really are limited in their ability to work. It's not what I'd call the ideal recipe for an all signing, all dancing working Britain.

It'll be calamity city as people appeal in their droves, some benefits will have been 'transitioned', others won't have been, there will be an absolute sea of unhappy claimants faced with decisions which they want to appeal, but we will have no practical way of helping the poor blighters because government's idealogy doesn't extend to helping the down trodden.

I've got an awful feeling the Lord's are going to be terribly nice about all of this, although it was good to see Lord Bach looking distinctly unimpressed; - the crucial stages will be a very vigorous scrutiny of all that's wrong, for there is a distinct lack of detail still.

Utter carnage; - yes it's going to be a car crash alright.

[nickd]

Link to Hansard paper...

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/lhan194.pdf